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Is there any more unreleased material?

 

Does anybody know what unreleased studio material there is?

Was the whole show at the Shrine recorded? I can't imagine they recorded only "Break Song"..

Phil Rae


Hi Phil,

Does anybody know what unreleased studio material there is?<> In Martell's interview for the Web site, he mentions the Fudge recorded new arrangements of Dylan's "Like A Rolling Stone" & the Beatles: "You Can't Do That". As you pointed out, there has to be some Master recording tapes around of various Vanilla Fudge concerts (including the '87 reunion tour). Vince also mentions a jam he and Carmine recorded with Jimi Hendrix that never made it onto a record. The Fudge were also recorded on several TV shows in 68-69 as well as their concert footage in the 1970 Motion Picture, "Popcorn" (largely overlooked because of Woodstock). I've also wondered if many of the songs they recorded on the Beat Goes On LP might exist somewhere in full length (ie "Hound Dog" etc).BTW- I hope you have the German cd of the Renaissance album. On it is the rare "People" track which didn't make it onto Rhino's "Psychedelic Sundae". Peace, Bill


Hi Bill,

I have the "People" track as an Italian pic. cover 45 (as the flip of "Some Velvet Morning), but I'd bet there are more studio track around...

I wonder whether there might be a full length "Strawberry Fields Forever", since there is the extract at the end of the 1st album.

Now that is a song that definitely calls out for the full on V.F. treatment!.....

Cheers,

Phil


Hi Phil,

Correction- instead of posting the UK discography here in the forum or to me, send all of it to Casey so he can add it to the Discography page where the fans can find it more easily and you can receive credit for it. Likewise, if you can provide places and dates for the Vanilla Fudge tours in the UK and/or Europe would you consider writing a special page with that information? Casey can help you there also, and it would be really nice for all of us, including the British and European fans to have a Euro-Brit-page to peruse. Information on the Vanilla Fudge's tours overseas are very hard to come by here in the United States and so any information you provided us would be a real blessing to all of us. Think it over and write Casey or Pete if you are able to do so. Peace, Bill


Hi Phil,

I have the "People" track as an Italian pic. cover 45 (as the flip of "Some Velvet Morning), but I'd bet there are more studio track around... <>Is there anyway you could scan an image of that jacket cover and send it to Casey for the Galleria? This is the first I've heard that "People" was ever released anywhere. Great collectible! We really need to build a discography and concert database for Vanilla Fudge's European works.

You're absolutely right, there must be a master tape of the Fudge's original rendetion of "Strawberry FIelds" and it would be wonderful for us to finally hear it.

It'a amazing how much material never makes it onto the actual records. A few years ago a boxed 3cd commemorative issue of Derek & the Domino's "Lalah & Other Love Songs" was released. It included the original album plus two full cd's of alternate takes, jams and songs that weren't included on the original LP.

As Casey pointeed out elsewhere: CBS records are sitting on the master tapes of a Mark Stein solo album. In the 1983 Keyboard Magazine Interview, Stein said CBS had even taken the photos for the LP's cover and then it was never released. And so it goes (sigh)... Peace, Bill


Hi Bill,

Annoyingly, I do have an Epson GT-5000 scanner, but can't use it at present as the the interface board doesn't seem to work with my PC - maybe the port isn't bi-directional or something, but as soon as I get that sorted out I could scan the sleeve.

I have all the UK 45's by V.F. but none of them were issued with picture sleeves. If anybody needs the UK discography, I can supply it..

As the V.F. were active for a five album span, there MUST be more studio leftovers than "All in your mind" to choose from.

Taking a band like SPIRIT as a fair parallel, each of their original four LP's were re-issued by Sony/Epic with great re-mastering, excellent booklets, and about five or six extra tracks on each album. All at a budget price too.

THAT is the way to re-release stuff!...Atco please note and follow...

Best wishes, Phil


Hi Phil,

Annoyingly, I do have an Epson GT-5000 scanner, but can't use it at present as the the interface board doesn't seem to work with my PC - maybe the port isn't bi-directional or something, but as soon as I get that sorted out I could scan the sleeve. <>That would be great. Just send the photo to Casey and he can put it in the Galleria for the rest of us to drool over! BTW, speaking of Italy, do you or anyone else reading this have the date for the 1969 Venice Festival wherein the Vanilla Fudge became the first Rock & Roll band in history to win the "Golden Gondola Award" for their vocal work?

I have all the UK 45's by V.F. but none of them were issued with picture sleeves. If anybody needs the UK discography, I can supply it..<> Phil, this is invaluable information. Please post the information here in the forum or Email to me at my Compuserve address above. Also, if you have any European/ UK concert dates that you know of please send them to me or post here in the forum (with whatever bands shared the bill). We're trying to make this site as comprehensive concerning the Fudge as possible. Recently in my research I was unable to locate any information on Vanilla Fudge's European discography and concerts. Also, by any chance, do you know if the Fudge ever toured Japan and Asia?

Spirit were a great band and I second your suggestion to ATCO. For whatever reason, ATCO's back catalog has not been marketed, remastered or reissued as competantly as many of the other record company catalogs of that era.

BTW- I was really sorry to see Randy California die earlier this year - he was a great person and musician. The Spirit web site has one of the last interviews California gave "online". Although you probably know it, FYI for the other SPirit fans: Edsel Records of the UK has reissued Spirit's double, "Spirit of 1976" LP on viny! It's a great LP featuring Randy California & Ed Cassidy - it has Randy's "killer version" of Dylan's "The Times They ARe A Changing".

You know, SPirt toured a lot with the Fudge in the US and wouldn't it be neat if the two bands ever did any studio or concert jams somewhere that were captured on tape? I've also been wondering if the 1969 Palm Beach festival was recorded. On that date Vanilla Fudge did several stage jams with Johnny & Edgar WInter as well as Janis Joplin. Peace, Bill Bates


Bill,

I thought I might have had some info on UK V.F. dates, but the best I can come up with at present is that they commenced a UK tour on 4th October 1967 - kicking off at the Finsbury Park Astoria (later known as the Rainbow Theatre).

I know a few people who collect vintage posters, so I'll see if I can get anything else.

Phil


Hi Phil,

I thought I might have had some info on UK V.F. dates, but the best I can come up with at present is that they commenced a UK tour on 4th October 1967 - kicking off at the Finsbury Park Astoria (later known as the Rainbow Theatre). <>That's great and certainly more than I had. The only two hard fact's I have on the Fudge in the UK is that their first single, YKMHO, hit # 18 on the UK charts on 13 Sept. 1967 and their first self-titled LP reached # 31 in the UK two months later (source: DK Encyclopedia of ROck Stars). Vince mentioned their Royal Albert Hall concert in Aaron's interview but didn't give the date. Likewise, Carmine mentioned it in the Manzarek interview availible on "The Carmine Appice Story" LP. Both said they opened for the Who and received very favorable reviews for their performance on that date.

I know a few people who collect vintage posters, so I'll see if I can get anything else.<> Good idea. Posters were my primary source for concert information here in the States - especially Grushkin's "The Art of Rock". Unfortunately Grushkin's book focuses mainly on the West Coast and has very little about European Rock posters.

BTW- I saw your tribute to Randy California - really wonderful job Phil! If you get the time could you tell us a bit more about the occasion you actually spoke with Randy? Peace, Bill


Hi Bill,

I'll get on the case with the UK V.F. discography this weekend.

The band played only a few dates in the UK, but I certainly remember the fallout of their gigs at the Saville Theatre in London, where an audience of musos (inc. J.Beck) were blown away with the band's performances...Apparently they were stunning. I'll see what info I can dig up.

As for non-UK Euro. stuff, I can't help, I'm afraid. Anyone else out there???

I have to confess that SPIRIT, along with the YARDBIRDS & HENDRIX, are my absolute all-time favourites, and I'm proud to see my testimonial to Randy California posted on the official SPIRIT website. You wouldn't find a better guitarist, or nicer person anywhere...It's a pity that their website, good though it is, does not remotely compare to this one!!

All the best, Phil


Hi Phil,

The band played only a few dates in the UK, but I certainly remember the fallout of their gigs at the Saville Theatre in London, where an audience of musos (inc. J.Beck) were blown away with the band's performances...Apparently they were stunning. I'll see what info I can dig up.<> That's great! The only specific Uk concert I've heard about is the one at the Royal Albert Hall where the Fudge opened for the Who (Carmine mentioned it on the "Carmine Appice Story" radio interview, LP). Unfortunately, I don't have a date for any of their concert's there.

As far as the British musicians, many of them were big Fudge fans. Carmine mentioned how Rod Stewart and Ron Wood of the Faces visited the Fudge at the recording studio while they were recording "Near the Begining". Both were very big fans of Vanilla Fudge. I've read George Harrison was also very impressed with the Fudge's version of "Eleanor Rigby".

As for non-UK Euro. stuff, I can't help, I'm afraid. Anyone else out there???<> Hopefully we'll get some more Europeans who can bring us up to speed on the Euro concerts and discography. I know the band was very popular in Italy and Germany. I received an Email the other day from one of their fans in FInland. I don't even know all the countries where the Vanilla FUdge actually toured in.

I have to confess that SPIRIT, along with the YARDBIRDS & HENDRIX, are my absolute all-time favourites, <>I have to confess I missed out on the Yardbirds, I was just never exposed to their music growing up. But Spirit and Hendrix were wonderful bands! I have always admired anybody who had an *original* sound. That's why I find it so diffucult to listen to a lot of the Alternative/MOR stuff recorded today (Concrete Blonde & a few others excepted). Spirit were another band who never really received the credit due them. Their first self-titled album was one of the all time finest, IMO. Both Bands toured with Vanilla Fudge but I was never lucky enough to see any of the three live back in the "Golden Age".

I'm proud to see my testimonial to Randy California posted on the official SPIRIT website. You wouldn't find a better guitarist, or nicer person anywhere...It's a pity that their website, good though it is, does not remotely compare to this one!!<> I'll have to go back over there and look up your testimonial - I agree. God bless Randy - "he never cut no deals" or compromised his own integrity. Last night I was listening to his version of "Hey Joe" and marveling at the killer guitar work he did on it. Peace, Bill


**I have to confess I missed out on the Yardbirds...**

Never too late, Bill! Check them out! They put out some great music. IMHO, they were one of the few "progressive" rock bands from Britain in the early/mid '60s amidst the invasion. I'm sure you know that the Yardbirds spawned three of the most famous British guitarists ever; Eric Clapton, Jimmy Paige, and none other than ...Jeff Beck. Wow, what a guitarists' garden! In fact, on BBA Live in Japan, JB vamps off on an old Yardbirds tune. I believe it's Over,Under,Sideways,Down. Am I right, Phil?

Pete


Pete,

Beck has always done this kind of thing - even up to today. BBA usually performed "Jeff's Boogie" live - an old Yardbirds item, and a vehicle for some J.B. flashiness, and there could usually be found a few other sly Yardbird riffs - often "The Train Kept-a-Rollin'" - just to keep himself amused, no doubt! I first saw the Yardbirds live in '65, when I was a 13 year old kid just starting to learn guitar. J.B. had just joined them, and I thought that all guitar players were that good, and just gave up for several months..They were staggering. J.B. had all the attack & showmanship and sheer originality that you could wish for - and over a year before Hendrix turned up..I also saw The Yardbirds again in '66 when J.B. was still with them, but J.Page had also joined them. VERY few live gigs with this line-up. And don't let anybody tell you otherwise - at live shows, Page played BASS!!

There are some truly horrendous Yardbird compilations about (most of them , I would say), but if anybody wants a starter, try the "Over under sideways down" CD on Raven RVCD 12. Jeff's Boogie is missing, but otherwise it's all there...

Phil


**And don't let anybody tell you otherwise - at live shows, Page played BASS!!**

I never knew that! But, I never saw them live either. Did he play it with a violin bow?

Pete


No he didn't!!

He used an Epiphone Rivoli semi-accoustic model (loaned from ex-bassist Paul Samwell-Smith, I imagine), and Beck played a Les Paul at the '66 show, whilst Chris Dreja remained on rhythm, playing a cherry red Gibson 335. This was at a UK seaside town (Blackpool), and I still have the program for that show. The Troggs were the support band!. It was a LOUD evening...

Incidentally, a while ago I read a very informed article listing all the original "sources" of virtually all early Page/Plant "compositions" Quite an eye opener. I knew that the "Stairway to Heaven" riff was copped wholesale from the intro to SPIRIT'S "Taurus" from their first album, and that "Black Mountain Side" was copped wholesale from a UK folk guitarist, but everything else seemed to be grand larceny also - including "Dazed & Confused".

The violin bow trick? - This was used originally, and extensively, by a UK band called CREATION in 1966, (when Page was still a studio session player.) Their guitarist, Eddie Phillips, was outstanding. Anybody who likes the early WHO sound (pre-68, say), is STRONGLY advised to check out this band. The violin bow trick is used to staggering effect on records CREATION produced in 1966, so I would say that Page has been undeservedly credited with this technique.

Phil


Hi Pete!

Never too late, Bill! Check them out! They put out some great music. IMHO, they were one of the few "progressive" rock bands from Britain in the early/mid '60s amidst the invasion. <>I've been meaning to buy one of their "best of" compilations for years but one thing and another always gets in the way.

Once I read an essay by somebody analyzing the 60's British Blues scene and how some English guys could crank out such respectable blues. The guy speculated it was due to the war and how all the British muscians had grown up either during or after the war when Britain was either being bombed or slowly starved in the post war depression. For most American civilians, WWII was a spectator event - we forget how our British and European cousins lived some of the darkest days in history.

I've always been a big fan of Peter Green,Rory Gallagher, & Eric Burdon - I just never listened to the Yardbirds. I've even listened to Cream, Led Zeppelin and some of Beck's stuff, just never the Yardbirds.

I'm sure you know that the Yardbirds spawned three of the most famous British guitarists ever; Eric Clapton, Jimmy Paige, and none other than ...Jeff Beck. Wow, what a guitarists' garden! <>Certainly those are very impressive personnel and I really need to make a point of buying a Yardbirds record and having a listen. It's just one of those weird lacuna's in my world I can't account for :-). Peace, Bill.


By the way, "People" was put together by Vince in half an hour in the studio when they needed another track! One of the anecdodes from the interview I've still got to get up... :-)

Casey


**By the way, "People" was put together by Vince in half an hour in the studio when they needed another track!**

BTW, Since Vince whipped that up, and the cut is sans keyboards, did Mark play the second guitar or did Vince overdub it?

Pete


BTW, Since Vince whipped that up, and the cut is sans keyboards, did Mark play the second guitar or did Vince overdub it?

Oops! I never asked stuff like that. I think what he was saying was that he wrote the words, I'd imagine they all collaborated on the music and harmony part, like they usually did.

I hope he'll be in here soon regularly, he may be getting WebTV pretty soon.

I'm curious as to who played the reindeer on that track! (g)

Casey


*Oops! I never asked stuff like that.*

I knew you brought me on for a reason!(g)

*I'm curious as to who played the reindeer on that track! (g)*

I have inside information it was Rudolph. (Tongue-in-cheek)The red "RECORDING" light was burned out outside the control room so...

Pete


Hi Pete,

I have inside information it was Rudolph. (Tongue-in-cheek)The red "RECORDING" light was burned out outside the control room so... <>LOL! :-)


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